Bug City Exposed

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Bug City Exposed

Post  Captain_Chaos on Fri 11 Feb 2011, 4:05 am

This just in chummers: the drek has officially hit the fan

UCAS Today Jan 10th 2059 wrote:
We have just received startling new footage from inside the Chicago Contaiment zone. [Roll footage of ant column, wasp nest and various bug types] These images are undoctored and raw. Little is known about what it is we are seeing, but it seems the heretofore unsubstantiated rumors of "insect spirits" is real. Whether the VITAS plague inside Chicago is still a threat is unknown. Be here at 11 for the full story, followed by a press conference with UCAS Government Officials.

So weaponize your bug spray, you don't want to get caught with your pants down here chummers.
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Re: Bug City Exposed

Post  alice on Fri 11 Feb 2011, 3:31 pm

Ok that is officially too much bug

The idea the the UCAS goverment could keep something like this from the public since Nov is... incredible? horible? disgusting? outrageous? It's just too much!

See ya chummers I'm moving to England
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better safe than...

Post  Drifter on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 8:52 pm

OK even I, skeptic that I am, think this would be hard to fake. No layer features, physics checks out for approximate mass, and it's not shaky or blurry (frauds traditionally rely on this).

So how do we know these things are even susceptible to chemical weapons? Most spirits aren't.

Any of you magic users want to chime in on non-magical ways to efficiently deal with these things? I’ve heard rumors that guns, grenades, and artillery are less effective than one might think due to their spiritual nature. Can we consecrate bombs or something to make them be more spiritual?
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spirits

Post  vanguard on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 10:05 pm

In general manifested spirits are vulnerable to whatever they are manifested as. For example fire elementals are vulnerable to water. So it stands to reason that insect spirits would be vulnerable pesticides, theoretically.
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tailor the chemical

Post  Drifter on Sun 13 Feb 2011, 5:19 pm

Thanks, V. But not all insects are susceptible to the same chemicals. For example, I've seen cockroaches swim in wasp killer without noticeable discomfort. Most of our insecticides are tailored for the insects we humans find harmful. Is there any reason to suspect poison meant for one type of earthly insect will work on all insect spirits?

Are fire spirits vulnerable to Fluorocarbons? Fluorocarbons are non-flammable liquids that also put out fires as easily as water. (We don't use them because they're 500 nuyen a gallon and water is plentiful.) Are CO2, foam, gel, buckets of sand or other fire retardants also effective against fire spirits? Are there different kinds of fire spirits that water isn't effective against? Water is less effective against oil fires for example.

My point is: If you're carrying chemical grenades based on roach poison and you run into stink beetles you shouldn't assume you're home free.
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Bug bombs

Post  Twixed on Sun 13 Feb 2011, 6:28 pm

Drifter wrote:
So how do we know these things are even susceptible to chemical weapons? Most spirits aren't.

True... but as I keep saying... the spirit world tends to be a reflection of the "real" world. Most spirits do not have problems with chemicals because they are more pure essence... more native to the astral plane. But since the insect spirits have taken on apects of our world, namely the form and function of insects, they also take on properties of insects. Thus anything that an insect is vulnerable to, so to is the insect spirit.

Drifter wrote:
Any of you magic users want to chime in on non-magical ways to efficiently deal with these things? I’ve heard rumors that guns, grenades, and artillery are less effective than one might think due to their spiritual nature. Can we consecrate bombs or something to make them be more spiritual?

This seems to be an exception to the above rule. Regardless of their having taken in an earthly form, these insects essence seems to primarily endangered by the intent or will of the attacker, and not the attack itself. Which seems to be in conflict with the pesticide and chemical warefare ideas. My best guess is that if the element or attack lacks the intent and willpower of a living being, then to be effective it must be basic and primal in some way. Astral space and normal space are linked in a way that we still don't understand. Toxic chemicals and pollution affect astral space and magic in much the same way as the air we breathe. So toxins at their most basic level are a pollutant in the body often causing death. So to are pesticides.

As to consecrating bombs; there are no known way for magic to remain active after leaving a mage's hand be it a weapon or spell attack. There are of course standing effects such as astral wards or elemental conjurings. This would take some thought, but what about warding a small object, placing a standing effect inside and then throwing it? Hm... then you would need to find a way to release the effect from the ward to do whatever it was desired to do... which CAN be problematic and possibly more work than it is worth.
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Re: Bug City Exposed

Post  NightFire on Sun 13 Feb 2011, 6:43 pm

Speaking of bombs, has anyone heard the rumors about a sub-tactical nuclear explosion happening inside the CZ in the days just before this went public?

My sources say that the military didn't do it. The lazy bastards have been sitting outside with their thumbs up their exaust-holes this whole time while giant bug monsters have the run of a city and have no idea what happened. Those outside DID see a mini-mushroom cloud, not to mention that the sound of such a thing sort of carries and is hard to miss. So the question is... what happened in there? Who set off the bomb and what did they blow up? The city still seems relatively intact, so it doesn't seem like some sort of extermination attempt. From what little my sources can gather, the yied was only about a city block or so.
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Chemicals Vs. Elementals

Post  Dr. D on Tue 15 Feb 2011, 5:40 am

Before we get too carried away snorting strange mushroom-clouds, I wished to respond to Mr. Drifter's postulates, as the supposedly "Awakened" Mr. Twixed was to interested in his own musings to truly answer questions.

Drifter wrote: "Are fire spirits vulnerable to Fluorocarbons? Fluorocarbons are non-flammable liquids that also put out fires as easily as water. (We don't use them because they're 500 nuyen a gallon and water is plentiful.) Are CO2, foam, gel, buckets of sand or other fire retardants also effective against fire spirits? Are there different kinds of fire spirits that water isn't effective against? Water is less effective against oil fires for example."

Mr. Drifter makes some very astute points. And I would agree with him. I would hazard that any flame retardant chemical would be effective against a fire elemental, and likewise anything that adversely affected an everyday element would most likely be effective against an elemental of said element.

I would be willing to wager that in some megacorporate magical research lab somewhere, one could find out exact specifics on what affects what.
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fire vs water

Post  vanguard on Tue 15 Feb 2011, 2:31 pm

As far as i know you can use real world techniques to slow down an elemental for example air elemental will be trapped in an air tight container. However impeding a spirits physical form does not necessarily damage it. From my study of elementals using some sort of fire retardant other than water could impede the movement of a fire elemental but if you wanted to stop it wholesale it has to be water. On the subject of an "oil fire" elemental i doubt that such a concoction could exist due the fact that a fire elemental draws its powers from the astral plane and not the physical one even when manifested. That being said there probably are other types of elemental "fire" that have a weakness to something other than water. Although i have never encountered such a being it is possible for them to exist.

Spirits are mostly reflections of their material selves so even though in reality all bugs are not vulnerable to the same pesticides by the nature of the way elementals exist it would be very likely that all insect spirits would be vulnerable to pesticides and by extension a pesticide elemental.

most of this is theoretical knowledge due to the complex nature of the sixth world. And the limited knowledge of insect spirits in specific.
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So we normals are boned?

Post  Drifter on Thu 17 Feb 2011, 5:47 pm

So what I'm hearing from all of this is:
1) don't fire the mages any time soon (still best offence vs bug spirits)
2) hire anyone who specializes in bashing in tanks with his/her bare fists
3) stock up on pesticides but hold your breath (in both senses) everytime you have to use one
Thanks folks. It's not good news but this helps.
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how incredibly facinating

Post  Drifter on Thu 17 Feb 2011, 6:09 pm

NightFire wrote:Speaking of bombs, has anyone heard the rumors about a sub-tactical nuclear explosion happening inside the CZ in the days just before this went public?

My sources say that the military didn't do it.Those outside DID see a mini-mushroom cloud, not to mention that the sound of such a thing sort of carries and is hard to miss.
OK, first off let's not get carried away. The largest conventional explosives are about the same kTonn rating as a tac-nuke and do produce mushroom clouds, sounds, and broken windows just as well. Were there any secondary signs that this was indeed nuclear? Gamma-ray or neutrino bursts? UV? EMP? Residual radiation? Even if there was an explosion it could have just been a big fuel-air bomb created on-site by stuff inside the containment zone. The most advanced ones could be as small as a family van.

And which military didn't do it? I'll bet a tube of Blue Goo some military did it even if it was only the Chicago reserve militia.

And from what I saw on the news reels, if there was a big explosion, I can make a good guess as to what it was they were targeting.
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what now

Post  Outlaw on Fri 25 Feb 2011, 9:21 pm

So if these bugs just got nuked and there isn't any vitas then when will the quarentine come down? I have family in there and i would like to see them some day soon.
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Re: Bug City Exposed

Post  NightFire on Fri 18 Mar 2011, 2:41 am

Drifter wrote: Even if there was an explosion it could have just been a big fuel-air bomb created on-site by stuff inside the containment zone. The most advanced ones could be as small as a family van.
True enough. Not all rumors are true, and it's hard to believe that ANYONE would be desperate or crazy enough, AND have the resources to detonate a nuclear bomb on American soil.

And Outlaw, hate to break it to you chummer, but the containment zone is NOT gone. The walls remain, and the military with Knight Errant are still not allowing anyone in or out. Only the story has changed. Well, not even that. The offical word still says that VITAS is the reason for the quarantine. There is also no move to end the quarantine either.
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Re: Bug City Exposed

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